So ... healthcare ...

[Alcatraz]

Well I can see from all my US friends on Facebook, how big an issue this is turning into, there seems almost a wave of hysteria around this. Actually in quite a frightening way "Say no to Communism. Say no to healthcare".

In my opinion, everyone envies the American standard of living ... until they get ill.

I'd me very interested to know if some of the Americans I've met in the UK, who were quite thankful of our free healthcare when they got sick are the same ones who are now going "not in my name".

[WhiteCrowUK]

Thanks for moving that - forgot we has a politics section!

An interesting article from the BBC ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8580678.stm

[locksmyth]

Oh yeah, the people that are complaining the most are in general the people with the most to gain from this bill. Myself, I'll get nothing and if my current situation continues, I'll never benefit from this bill (except via low premiums) but I know realistically that my insurance as it currently stands would buckle the moment I get seriously ill.

[tiamot]

Obviously I have the same insurance as Locky. The bill may not affect us in a dramatic or direct way, but it offers protections that were previously not there. This new reform makes it illegal for our insurer to drop either of us due to serious illness, or for a new insurer to deny me coverage because I have a pre-existing condition: bipolar disorder.

-oh you're a risk cuz you're depressed n'shit and have mood swings. yep, you're gonna cost us at least a couple of thousand dollars a year and well, we can't afford to spend a few thousand a year...yeah so sorry we can't insure you. But we're not heartless bastards! If you just pay this awesomely high premium so we can all go out and get our second vacation homes, we'll give you a *some* coverage. so like if you get hit by a meteor we'll be there to help-

Until the beginning of March, the place Locky works-PPI- has paid 100% of the premium. Of course the insurance douche bags raised the cost again and will probably do so for as long and as high as they can before the government chomps them. Now we have to pay 10% of the premium. They spread this out over the course of the whole year so it amounts to only a minimal amount we shell out in any month. Fortunately we can absorb this right now, as it's less than 4% of our total income. I know we all know that the cost is high-but I'm putting some numbers out here to make it clear to those of you who don't know exactly HOW bad it is.

At this point in time our insurance-which is a couple's plan- costs roughly $13,200 a year. Over thirteen thousand a year. If we lost coverage and had to pay for this out of pocket, it would decimate nearly 40% of our income.

The benefits our plan offers are good, don't get me wrong. We could definitely find a cheaper plan, but with less benefits. But here's what makes what we have to be considered a "great' plan 1) We can go to the hospital 2)We can go to the doctor 3)We can get prescription drugs.
Wait... Isn't that what a health insurance plan is supposed to be covering anyway??!?!?! You'd think.
But many people out there have to pay for office calls out of pocket and have little if any prescription coverage. They can only go to the hospital. In which case the company might only pay, say 80%. Some plans don't pay for anything at all until you've spent at least around $5000 out of pocket. Then they'll kick in and pay 60% until you've hit $10k and then after that they'll pay 80%. Oh and they'll only pay out say $1million over the lifetime. Once the family as a whole has used up that 1mil-no insurance anymore. These plans are really, really bad. Its almost cheaper to not pay their high premiums and just save it for emergencies. The absolute worst of all are the people out there who have no insurance whatsoever. It's scary-I've been there.

Now in order to get what one would consider basic care out of a plan you can expect a plan like ours-a $13,000 yearly price tag.
A person making minimum wage in Michigan, assuming that they're working 40 hours every single week only makes $15,392 a year. Leaving them less than $2200 a year to live on. On and this is all BEFORE taxes. So they have even less to live off now. They don't even have enough to buy food.

The above is simply an extreme scenario. It is fictitious. It will never happen, for a few key reasons.
-Stable jobs where you get 40hr a week every week are practically gone. Most employers will keep you around 32 a week.
-This leave no time off period. You get sick and vacation on the weekends. Realistically, shit don't happen that way.
-Oh and you don't get holidays either.
#1 reason why it's fictitious : People making minimum wage would NEVER pay out for this plan because they cannot afford it. Period.

Bear in mind that the sky high cost of mine and Lock's insurance is as 'low' as it is because its an HMO! We get the benefit of 'lower' premiums because we're part of a network of doctors and hospitals and other companies who pay in. A big group pool, if you will.

OH did I mention that we can only go to facilities that are on their list? I have a rather thin book in my filing cabinet that tells me which doctors I can go to. If I choose someone else- we'll they won't pay.

[WhiteCrowUK]

Of course for me, this bill as a non-American who does not live in America, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

But I'm glad it has come into law, and hope it won't get forced out. If you put a news story out "there is a country where millions are denied medical treatment, or have to give up everything and risk bankrupcy to get treatment", people would be up in arms saying the UN should do something. Say the country you're talking about is America, and everyone falls silent.

To me - as a non-America, one of the most powerful tennants that the country was build on was that "all men are created equal". If two men are sent to hospital with the same illness and one is treated, whilst the other sent away, is that equality?

In my mind I hope the bill is a step towards addressing what has seemed a somewhat unfair and injust system. The solution of course won't be perfect, it'll need addressing and altered with lots of follow on legislation as the system is used and potentially abused. But the bill to me tries to introduce equality, justice and fairness - ideals which to me should be very American. It's kind of a little saddening to see a bill which then seems built on back-to-basics core American values is actually being challenged as un-Constitutional.

[WhiteCrowUK]

Oh yeah and nice to see that a Bill which will provide health care for kids, and thus hopefully reduce Americas higher-than-average infant mortality, caused one of the men behind it to be heckled as a "baby killer". What kind of wierd backward logic is that?

[Alcatraz]

I fear, though, that even if this new health bill goes through it will only be dismantled the next time the Republicans get back into power.

[skati]

I fear, though, that even if this new health bill goes through it will only be dismantled the next time the Republicans get back into power.

Oh you know it will. John McCain and them are going on about how they'll keep fighting it in the courts and what not. They're just waiting for their chance at this point. For kicks, I watched Glen Beck after this thing was passed, same old crap. Also threw out there that "If your American, you get healthcare. Heck, if you're an illegal, you still get healthcare." That seems to be part of the problem, that people like him think everyone can afford healthcare, when that's just not the case. Makes it sound like it's free already, when that's just not the case.

On a sidenote: I keep expecting the tea party protesters to start a riot over this.

[tiamot]

What gets my goat the most are the blatant lies that are being spread about this bill. And the most disparaging part of it all is that so many believe them. Its just hateful.

[WhiteCrowUK]

My hope is if Obama gets a second term, it is very hard to take away something which has become established. Sure you can siffle funds for it and reduce scope, but not outright kill it.

What gets my goat the most are the blatant lies that are being spread about this bill. And the most disparaging part of it all is that so many believe them. Its just hateful.

Yeah - War of the Worlds, "reds under the beds" ... it might be unkind, but sometimes it feels like America can be just a media broadcast away from mass hysteria.

The saddest thing to me is in a country where the ownership of any gun or rifle of your desire is seen as a basic right, access to healthcare for your family and your loved ones is not. I know I'm not an American, and I'm guilty of an upbringing which would have me witch-hunted as a Commie - but to me that statement feels not only wrong, but unjust.

To me of course, you just have to look at the Hyppocratic Oath, the basis of all medicine, which is the Holy Grail of medicine ...

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

At no point does it contain a clause "I'm sorry your medical insurance does not cover you" ...

[WhiteCrowUK]

Hmmm ... I think the TEA party need to take a hatchet to this article ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine

It actually makes a lot of good points for socialize medicine models.